tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5414785286921467267.post559844529268459970..comments2024-03-14T04:51:02.804-05:00Comments on the Adventures of Wyatt Earp in 2999: 21 Influential Mainstream Comics Writers (For Better or Worse)Justinhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/16490957677766912068noreply@blogger.comBlogger8125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5414785286921467267.post-5360992789900139812009-12-12T05:33:39.343-06:002009-12-12T05:33:39.343-06:00If you're on the fence about anyone here...con...If you're on the fence about anyone here...consider replacing them with Steve Englehart. Or maybe the "rising and advancing of the spirit" thing is not seen ENOUGH in modern comics, and he's just a quality writer too far past without a dip into research. Could be he is an influence to many on your list, actually, but not well known anymore! His DOCTOR STRANGE run is memorable and is almost certainly a precursor to Moore's PROMETHEA in terms of authentic magic concepts, and his manner of heroes coming to terms (Cap/Nomad for one; Pym, another, though that seems lost)with their failings or disillusionment is famous. But don't take my word for it; Plok's "The Two Steves" and poor mad Martian Manhunter's blog come from people there whilst I was a gleam in Dad's eye...Ceasehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16852602817305513997noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5414785286921467267.post-73900644745471017602009-08-09T19:20:42.742-05:002009-08-09T19:20:42.742-05:00Coming...Coming...plokhttp://circumstantial.wordpress.com/noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5414785286921467267.post-4670774301195096822009-08-06T01:39:13.811-05:002009-08-06T01:39:13.811-05:00As for Morrison (whom I am admittedly biased towar...As for Morrison (whom I am admittedly biased toward as my favorite comics writer, and the guy I sort-of named my pseudo-band after), I feel that he should be more influential but isn't, somehow. <br /><br />I think it's too easy to dismiss him because he has that reputation of "the drug guy." Like, "Ooh, the infant universe of Qwewq contains 'our' universe ... he must have been totally high when he had that idea!" And, y'know, maybe he was, or maybe he is A CREATIVE WRITER WHO HAD AN IDEA YOU HAVE NOT SEEN BEFORE.<br /><br />So his stuff is generally well-thought-of, but nobody else thinks they can get away with it. People were intrigued by the ideas of mutant culture in New X-Men, but they brought Magneto back right away and gave up on the culture stuff. JLA was one of the top-selling books of its day, but he goes away and people think, "Well, you can't *really* do a team book motivated so primarily by plot, you need more character-driven stuff." Nobody has a bad thing to say about the Manhattan Guardian, but nobody will touch him!Justinhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16490957677766912068noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5414785286921467267.post-66502535174717064202009-08-06T01:25:10.273-05:002009-08-06T01:25:10.273-05:00Wow, y'know, I've never actually thought o...Wow, y'know, I've never actually thought of Bendis as a continuation of Moore, but I see it now! I suppose he's a bit more fannish than Moore, which is why you get stuff like the Illumnati talking about what went on behind the scenes during Infinity Gauntlet and all that jazz; is it too reductive to suggest Bendis likes to explore the past, and Moore prefers to explore the future?<br /><br />Still, Bendis' "mature" take on superheroes is generally more legitimately mature than, say, Judd Winnick's or Mark Millar's. He's a talented dude, but the decompression stuff gets to me, and ultimately I feel like Marvel's current approach isn't sustainable -- that these linewide status quo shifts are going to start distancing the audience too much from the core concepts and the "world," if they're not doing so already. From what I see of Dark Reign on the periphery, it's very non-organic feeling; the Dark Avengers are showing up everywhere not because they're popular and in-demand, but because Marvel has *decided* to push them.<br /><br />I see Waid in Johns sometimes, but not always. From things he's written about his process, Waid always seems like he's keeping himself in check; that he'd be perfectly happy to write Superman comics exactly like they were in 1978, or to bring back Barry Allen -- but he knows that the market doesn't want Elliot S! Maggin Superman, and he was determined to make a go of it with Wally West. I'm not sure that same *discipline* is there with Johns.<br /><br />Like, Johns has Superboy-Prime as a metatextual comment on the type of fan who wants things exactly like they were when he started reading comics, but at the same time Johns brings back Hal Jordan and Barry Allen. It's a mixed message, and it's another reason why I HAVE NO IDEA WHAT JOHNS IS ABOUT.Justinhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16490957677766912068noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5414785286921467267.post-76135191162908187332009-08-05T17:08:28.925-05:002009-08-05T17:08:28.925-05:00I think you've convinced me about Bendis, actu...I think you've convinced me about Bendis, actually...decompression and desultory action-climaxes, the slight souring of the "realistic" superhero into something more Sopranos-ish...I do actually think those things will continue to be big influences, in much the same way as Claremont's amping-up of the soap-opera shenanigans and TV drama beats he found lying around in the Eighties has stuck. Good point. You could also argue that Bendis has been the most successful emulator of Alan Moore, for all this "souring"...possibly you could say that when the book of Bendis is written, the first chapter in it will consist of a brief look at Moore's Swamp Thing. Maybe.<br /><br />Good point about Waid, too...I don't know, maybe one could propose that Waid's reactionary decomposition (not just in KC, but other places too) has already been an influence on Johns? I'd sort of put Morrison in here too, for his attempts to revivify the "superhero poetry"...if he isn't influential already, I'm certain he soon will be.<br /><br />Hmm...plokhttp://circumstantial.wordpress.com/noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5414785286921467267.post-65592743590638303902009-08-05T02:01:57.788-05:002009-08-05T02:01:57.788-05:00Made it through! Okay, couple other fast things.
...Made it through! Okay, couple other fast things.<br /><br />-Valid point on Gaiman, I think. I also waffle a bit on Morrison being on the list; he's rarely *imitated*, but later writers refuting what he's done *kind of* indicates influence, doesn't it?<br /><br />-I stand by Bendis on the list, but I'll admit I wasn't entirely confident about Giffen/DeMatteis and Johns. G/DM, though, I can at least see in Gail Simone's stuff and a few other places. Feels important, but I don't think I'm expressing it well.<br /><br />-Wasn't sure if Harvey Pekar was "mainstream" enough, but he's important enough where I'd feel bad leaving him off in favor of, God, I don't know, Roger Stern or somebody.<br /><br />-I actually considered putting Waid on because Kingdom Come brings with it the "legacy hero" stuff, and that reactionary nostalgia, and they keep trying to nudge the DC Universe closer to it for some reason. But ultimately, Alex Ross is the guy who wanted to draw Nightwing and Starfire's daughter, and a new Wildcat, and Red Robin -- Waid doesn't give them much to do because he'd much rather write about Superman, Batman and Wonder WomanJustinhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16490957677766912068noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5414785286921467267.post-32949562952054868292009-08-05T01:40:34.030-05:002009-08-05T01:40:34.030-05:00Huh, I did actually *mean* to use the phrase "...Huh, I did actually *mean* to use the phrase "soap opera" in my Claremont explanation but apparently didn't. People sometimes associate Stan Lee with soap opera, but I don't really think his interpersonal plots were *sprawling* enough to use that term ("Matt Murdock/Scott Summers/Tony Stark loves Karen Page/Jean Grey/Pepper Potts and vice versa, but they never admit their feelings" is more of a sitcom setup and not a soap opera plotline?)<br /><br />Also: Claremont really *is* a sort of proto-Bendis in a lot of ways, isn't he? Very distinctive dialogue tics (though different from each other), favorite characters that keep "following him" from book to book... <br /><br />I agree that no one really imitates Bendis in an obvious way because it would be *too* obvious (no particularly keen insights are necessary to write a dead-on Bendis parody, after all). I think he's been influential more in structure, maybe? Pacing, for sure: taking six issues to do the Spider-Man origin really kicked down a lot of doors, I think. I'm not sure the economy in storytelling that used to be standard in superhero comics is likely to come back any time soon. <br /><br />Likewise, Bendis showed that people would buy superheroes talking to each other *about* superhero things (often at the expense of actually *doing* superhero things). And today there's an awful lot of comics with the Justice League or a bunch of supervillains sitting around a boardroom table chatting away in a way that feels almost procedural.<br /><br />I suppose for Bendis, like Johns, it's a bit early to tag him as being influential, and it'll take awhile to see if his stuff really holds. I hope it doesn't; I liked stuff like Torso better anyway. I tend to think he might like superheroes more *conceptually* than in practice, which might explain why the most vibrant parts of his comics are the procedural bits, and the actual action just tends to be tossed-off, double-page spreads of random carnage. He doesn't seem *interested* in action, does he?<br /><br />Ooh, wait, am I overloading Blogger's comments?Justinhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16490957677766912068noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5414785286921467267.post-33563895139295847502009-08-04T07:36:43.499-05:002009-08-04T07:36:43.499-05:00Oh, man.
Funnily enough, I might be inclined to a...Oh, man.<br /><br />Funnily enough, I might be inclined to argue with Moore, Morrison, and Gaiman. Moore's the toughest, of course: he smashed up the room like Welles in <i>Kane</i>, and had a lot of copiers. Okay, Moore stays in the picture. Neil I think was certainly as influential, but maybe not so much on the <i>writing</i> side, as on the industry side. Are there people out there doing dumbass Gaiman <i>pastiches</i> because they're trying to be like him? An excellent, intelligent plotter, dialoguer, and purveyor of the "Neil Gaiman Jazz"...but as a figure in comics publishing, far more than that I think.<br /><br />Claremont's a funny one: I would say his chief contribution to superhero comics was in the way he imported a lot of the tricks of television into them, although sometimes in disguise. The Cockrum/Byrne X-Men eras didn't just bring romance in, but actual <i>soap operas</i>, like the soap operas of TV, aesthetically very similar to TV production were his comics, and why talking like Yoda all of a sudden I am, I know not. But Claremont's always been deeply in love with TV, he's the proto-Bendis, even in his pinch-hitter days his scripts had a verve quite unlike, say, Kirby's...<br /><br />Len Wein made Marvel Universe continuity <i>stick</i>, and have a beat. Also invented a lot of the bullshit pseudo-science cliches that are still used.<br /><br />I'll give you 8. (whew!), but gotta disagree on 14., 15., and 21. Twenty years from now I think Geoff Johns could be evaluated (and probably will be) as you say, but I think it's soon to say he's influential, considering he's still basically IN CHARGE...after he's not in charge, we'll know better. Bendis, as Gaiman, I don't see anybody rushing to copy, and perhaps that's a compliment to him...I don't think he does well at all in the Marvel Milieu, but he's certainly head and shoulders above anyone who'd seek to emulate him, if any people like that exist. His influence (like Millar's) on the MU I think will dissipate...they like to break the toys too much. Waid's influence on DC is surely more pronounced: the toys he's broken look to stay broken. DeMatteis and Giffen are actually the originators of the "super-badass" Batman in their Justice League, but outside of that...I mean, they were really great comics (and had a lot of face-smacking drama in them too, at first!), but I'm not sure they'll ever be truly "influential".<br /><br />Finally, I <i>would</i> say Gerber, but not entirely for the reasons you cite. Mebbe I oughtta elaborate on that, but I dunno...not sure I can pull off my own version of this because I'm crap at list-making, but maybe I'll give it a shot?<br /><br />The rest of these are pretty immaculate.plokhttp://circumstantial.wordpress.com/noreply@blogger.com